Curse

Sam Katha · Jun 10, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

what are you talking about?

the nerfing of farming/implementation of rune trader(the same patch) has effectively taken money out of the hands of the poor. The lvl 20's playing PvP already have 800plat and could care less...for those of us that are looking at 15K armor in the near future...this update killed any reasonable way to make money.

I would suggest that you simply play the game. I've never been in a situation where I didn't have enough money simply by doing that. There is no need to be "rich" in this game. You only have to buy what you need, money beyond that serves no purpose. The 15k armor is exactly the same as the 1.5k armor, it gives no bonuses and is purely cosmetic.

The rune traders make things easier for the "poor" by keeping rune prices low. Any complaints about it (other than from you for some reason) have come from the "rich" who now can no longer set the prices. I really do think you have an incorrect view of how supply an demand works...

Myodato · Jun 10, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

The lvl 20's playing PvP already have 800plat and could care less...for those of us that are looking at 15K armor in the near future...this update killed any reasonable way to make money.

The 15k armour is there specifically to reduce the hoards of rich players, so what exactly does it have to do with 'poor' players ?

Your argument is akin to saying that the rich should pay higher taxes so that the poor can buy a Van Gogh.

This hasn't made the rich any better off, and it hasn't made the 'poor' any worse off unless they're stupid. Mobs still die, and they still drop loot. Hey, you can even sell that loot without wasting an hour you could spend farming shouting WTS XXXX.

Algren Cole · Jun 10, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Katha

I would suggest that you simply play the game. I've never been in a situation where I didn't have enough money simply by doing that. There is no need to be "rich" in this game. You only have to buy what you need, money beyond that serves no purpose. The 15k armor is exactly the same as the 1.5k armor, it gives no bonuses and is purely cosmetic.

The rune traders make things easier for the "poor" by keeping rune prices low. Any complaints about it (other than from you for some reason) have come from the "rich" who now can no longer set the prices. I really do think you have an incorrect view of how supply an demand works...

how does the rune trader regulate prices? I still sell my runes for 300-800. the rune trader is prefectly willing to give me 780g for my Minor Rune of Absorption...It doesn't regulate anything. It just takes money out of circulation.

Galatea · Jun 10, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Well, the Rune Trader most likely regulates prices for the more rare items, like Superior Vigor, etc...

I haven't bought one myself, but I think some were paying up to 100K or so for that item, or something insanely high.. and with the Rune Trader having stock, the prices should start adjusting to meet supply and demand.

Sam Katha · Jun 10, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

how does the rune trader regulate prices? I still sell my runes for 300-800. the rune trader is prefectly willing to give me 780g for my Minor Rune of Absorption...It doesn't regulate anything. It just takes money out of circulation.

The rune trader will regulate prices in the same way that the dye trader does. Nobody will pay more for black dye than what the trader is selling it for (unless they don't know any better). It basically sets an upper limit for the price. If the trader was not there the price for black dye would be astranomical right now. I'm not certain that this is the best solution for inflation (it really just sidsteps it) but it does help. Specifically it helps the "poor" by keeping the price low.

A better solution for inflation would be more consumable products like the dwarven ale; Things that you must spend gold on but disappear after used so you must spend gold continually. Essentially to have zero inflation the amount of gold entering the game must exactly equall the amount leaving the game.

Algren Cole · Jun 10, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Katha

The rune trader will regulate prices in the same way that the dye trader does. Nobody will pay more for black dye than what the trader is selling it for (unless they don't know any better). It basically sets an upper limit for the price. If the trader was not there the price for black dye would be astranomical right now. I'm not certain that this is the best solution for inflation (it really just sidsteps it) but it does help. Specifically it helps the "poor" by keeping the price low.

Dye Traders don't trade Black or Silver dye...which is why Black and Silver aren't regulated. You can sell black dye for as much as 6K if some noob is willing to pay it.

Quote:

A better solution for inflation would be more consumable products like the dwarven ale; Things that you must spend gold on but disappear after used so you must spend gold continually. Essentially to have zero inflation the amount of gold entering the game must exactly equall the amount leaving the game.

so atleast we agree that simply taking money out of cirulation and not replacing it is a bad idea by ArenaNet.

like I said...start charging the PvP players to play at the HoH...

Sam Katha · Jun 10, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Dye Traders don't trade Black or Silver dye...which is why Black and Silver aren't regulated. You can sell black dye for as much as 6K if some noob is willing to pay it.

Actually the do trade balck and silver dye. Scroll down the trade window they will be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

so atleast we agree that simply taking money out of cirulation and not replacing it is a bad idea by ArenaNet.

I'm not saying that they are taking money away and not replacing it. I am saying they are not taking enough away to cover what they are giving. The exact opposite actually

Algren Cole · Jun 10, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Katha

Actually the do trade balck and silver dye. Scroll down the trade window they will be there.

that must be a new development that I didn't notice with this patch...because they didn't used to.

Quote:

I'm not saying that they are taking money away and not replacing it. I am saying they are not taking enough away to cover what they are giving. The exact opposite actually

wait a couple of days..you'll see what I'm saying. Mobs don't drop as often...therefore money isn't as readily available....over time they're going to be taking out more than they are putting in.

CtrlAltDel · Jun 10, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

[black and silver dye have always been on there since they added them, you just have to scroll...many people miss them in there]

only thing with the item upgrades is that they vary with their strength
ie. fort upgrade +20-30

so whats at the trader, all of the whole range...just the base?

see why people will still get a premium for a +30 fort upgrade and whatnot

Bingley Joe · Jun 10, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

that must be a new development that I didn't notice with this patch...because they didn't used to.

Mmmm.. nope -- the traders have been selling 'em since the dawn of time.

Algren Cole · Jun 10, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

when I go to a Dye trader there aren't enough items to require the need of scrolling...guess I assumed they didn't sell black or silver and never noticed a scroll bar....

CtrlAltDel · Jun 10, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

you can always expand the trade window in the corner like the other windows in the game

Algren Cole · Jun 10, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

you can always expand the trade window in the corner like the other windows in the game

I just never saw black or silver or a scroll bar.

what does the trader sell black and silver dye for?

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 10, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

that's how an economy works....you can't just remove money from an economy you need to supplement it. ArenaNet should have throught of that before they went live...there's really nothing they can do about it now. They have changed anything other than the fact that money is harder to get your hands on.

Basically money becomes redundant in games, it is not real life so to compare it to RL economics is foolish.
In RL you have Tax, you have to pay for food, petrol the list goes on and on.
In a game you don't, They have there for a need to create gold sinks, that will compensate for the fact that there is nothing to spent cash on.
The Rune Trader, Fussure and the 75k armours are the current gold sinks.
They are there to slow down the growing number of millioniares within the game. If you all receive gold at a fast rate, then those who have worked hard and paid 75k for the armours will nolonger be unique as everyplayer will have a set. It really is as simple as that.

If you get given everything, where is the challange? Initially it maybe be cool, but it would soon lead to boredom.

Having to earn that $3 to buy them luxury biscuits, then eating them makes them taste all the sweeter, then you go out earn another $3 till you can afford another packet. THis way you enjoy you delux biscuits and they are worth every penny.
Now if them buscuits were free, sure the first packet, maybe nice, even the second, but buy the third and fourth packets they become sickly and you nolonger want them, in fact you are unlikely to have them again due to over indulgence.

Alas the above is human nature, with very very few exceptions to the rule.

riflex · Jun 10, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Do you guys think that if players were rewarded gold for winning in the Competition Arena consequently would help the economy?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 10, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

*Sighs Deeply*

The way an Economy works is neither on the left nor the right side of the political spectrum. Hell, it's not even on the political spectrum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by riflex

Do you guys think that if players were rewarded gold for winning in the Competition Arena consequently would help the economy?

No. Putting more gold into circulation just makes inflation worse. And all those PvEers who are just starting out won't be able to get gold if farming were nerfed (like some say it should be) and inflation continues.

ComMan · Jun 10, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I honestly would not mind at all if EVERYTHING had a trader. I really hate that trade channel.

Deagol · Jun 10, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Sigh. The traders sell whatever they can buy from the players. If nobody will sell yellow dye to the trader, the trader will run out of stock (and the price skyrocket). Same with the materials trader and the sigil trade and now the rune trader.

Unlike the merchants, the traders are merely brookers between players.

They are a for pay service for those of us who prefer spending our time fighting monsters (and get gold drops) over finding the best deal on the spam channel. We pay a trader for doing something we find boring, and earn the money for it by doing something we find fun.

The traders obviously compete with those players who find trading more fun than fighting. Tough luck, Guild Wars is basically a combat game, not a trading game.

The difference between the traders and an auction house is that the traders are very cheap to implement. Traders don't deal with individual items, but with classes of identical items. All they need is a single integer for each class, holding the number of items currently in stock. An auction house would require a huge central database containing each individual item. Basically a gigantic inventory. It would go very much against the technical design of Guild Wars, which thanks to districts and instances can run very distributed and on cheap hardware.

A weapon upgrade trader would be a good idea, but only work if weapon upgrades aren't too unique. Are all posion bow strings the same? Or do the upgrades have individual attributes? If the later, such a trader would be much more difficulat to implement.

CtrlAltDel · Jun 10, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I just never saw black or silver or a scroll bar.

what does the trader sell black and silver dye for?

we mean the dye trader...it sells all the dyes